No, you can't use me for sex.

[denny]

...not because I wouldn't let you, but just because I don't see how it would be possible. I like sex.


A few times lately in various conversations I've heard girls use phrases like "He was just using me for sex" or "I don't want to be used for sex", and also things like "He needs to earn it first".

I don't understand this concept.

As far as I can tell, having sex with someone is a trade. They get some, you get some. Everyone's a winner.

If a girl wants to have sex with me, then I don't see how I can 'use' her for sex, and I don't see why I should have to 'earn' it either. If she wants sex with me, and she gets it, surely that's a fairly successful outcome for her? And if she doesn't want sex with me, then I wouldn't want to do it anyway... half-hearted shags are almost invariably crap.

Anyway, can anybody explain the fault in my reasoning? Maybe girls have a sekrit stockpile of sex that guys steal from them if they don't keep it carefully guarded at all times...

Do girls actually feel like they're doing blokes a huge one-way favour when they sleep with them? If so, why do they bother doing it?

I say 'girl' because I've yet to hear a guy complain about being used for sex. Odd that. Is this because men are sluts, or is it because society has given women some weird artificially inflated opinion of the value of their participation in the sex act, compared to the participation of the guy?

Or perhaps it's that women are less likely to enjoy sex? The problem I have is reconciling enjoying sex and 'feeling used' by it. I suppose if you hated sex but did it anyway (for what?) then it would make more sense.

I know gay guys don't seem to be worried about being used for sex. Is the concept in use in the gay scene for women, or is it strictly a heterosexual thing? Maybe it's part of the whole 'women as property' mess that our society is still trying to shake off?

I really don't understand this attitude to sex - and when it's aimed at me, I find it quite insulting. It takes two to tango... if you don't want me as much as I want you, then why are we even talking about it?

Comments

[arachne.livejournal.com]

Way I see it, people (and I've heard men complan of being used for sex, but less frequently than women, it's true) tend to complain of being "used for sex" when they wanted/expected more than sex from their liason with said person and didn't get it. Whether that actually got round to letting the other person *know* they wanted/expected more usually doesn't factor. They wanted something deeper than penetration, didn't get, so feel "used", even though they allowed the "use".

Basically, people are very very silly things indeed.

Also, there's the age-old thing, programming that's being broken but you still come across (fnarr) occasional deep-seated subconscious hang-ups - women are the passive sex partner. Women *give* sex to men. It's a wife's greatest gift to her husband, yadda yadda, get me to Victorian times already. That may have something to do with it, but you'd think we'd all be well over that by now. Unfortunately, we don't all completely seem to be.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I agree.

I think when women say that they're definitely referring to anything but sex when they say 'I feel used for sex'.

Women, eh? ;)

[lusercop.livejournal.com]

Just as a small data point, there was one-time where I felt this was the case - only one, mind you, and I'm a hetero bloke. I let myself be talked into it, and I'm not sure quite how it happened, but it did. To be fair this was with someone that I had been sleeping with for over a year at one stage, but she'd been out with someone else in the meantime.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

So I guess my question is either:

Why did you have sex with someone when you didn't want to?

or

Why did you feel used after having sex with someone you wanted to have sex with?

[booklectica]

'Used' to me implies that someone has pretended to be interested in someone else's mind, emotions, opinions etc, in order to get sex. (CF. Neil Strauss's The Game.) Then after the sex it becomes clear that it was indeed pretence. Whether the person in question enjoys the resulting sex or not, that kind of thing can leave you feeling rather upset.

It usually seems to be men pretending interest in women. They presumably do this because they don't believe women will want sex for its own sake, so they have to be tricked into it.

It's also worth noting that (gross generalisation coming up) it's easier for men to have good sex than women, especially when it's casual sex. Also that women have more to lose from careless casual sex than men do (pregnancy, 'reputaton' - see above comment re Victorian ideas).

If women could be guaranteed enjoyable, safe sex with someone who respects them as a fellow human being, they'd probably have casual sex more often. This does not currently seem to be the case.

(This is all theory. I've not really done the one-night-stand thing, and the one time I did I ended up marrying them.)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Ah, swayed again - thanks for pointing those bits out (being a direct sort of guy who wouldn't pretend anything).. :)

[arachne.livejournal.com]

Yup, yup and yup, also.

[snowyfeline.livejournal.com]

hehehe. I guess when people use each other it's ok :P
(don't mind me. you know how i am when I've just woken up...)

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

when people use each other it's ok

I think that might be a seven word summary of my entire post - thankyou! :)


Grammar question for any passing pedants: is that seven words or eight? Or is it six words and a contraction, or something along those lines?

[kissycat1000.livejournal.com]

I think feeling 'used' for sex comes about when the person doing the complaining feels that the experience was purely physical when they wanted something more than that - a relationship, a merging of souls, a feeling that they have now become more special to you than they previously were. However if you go into it not expecting any of these things and not knowing that your partner does, then you get problems.

Also, really bad sex where you take you pleasure but don't go out of your way to make sure that your partner is satisfied - that's 'using' someone for sex, I'm sure.

I don't recall ever feeling that I've been used for sex before by a particular person, though I have had some instances of an established partner keeping an emotional distance from me during sex, or just taking their pleasure with no care for mine. That could qualify, I suppose.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I think feeling 'used' for sex comes about when the person doing the complaining feels that the experience was purely physical when they wanted something more than that - a relationship, a merging of souls, a feeling that they have now become more special to you than they previously were.

From my point of view, you don't get 'a merging of souls' from sex. You can reinforce emotional closeness with sex, you can glory in it (oh how you can glory in it!), but you don't generate it. Maybe I'm odd in this respect?

I sleep with people either because I think it will be good fun, or because I love them and it will be both good fun and emotionally amazing. I never expect to sleep with someone I don't already love and have it be emotionally amazing in that same way...

Also, really bad sex where you take you pleasure but don't go out of your way to make sure that your partner is satisfied - that's 'using' someone for sex, I'm sure.

This is a good point... I said having sex with somebody is a trade... of course, it should really be a fair trade to be worth doing.

[cryx]

I think this attitude comes in when the lady in question is looking for a relationship, and believes that the act of sex is confirmation that this is what is being entered into.

I also know guys who have felt used, and girls by other girls.

I think that there are alot of different attitudes to sex in the culture in general, and that the attitudes of my friends are often quite different to the 'norm'.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I do like that top :-P

It looks like a common theme in the comments so far is this thing of one person expecting a relationship and the other just thinking there were in for a shag. It still seems to me that this implies the 'injured' party was only reluctantly giving the sex in return for something which they felt was valuable - the emotional commitment. This still seems to suggest that to them the sex itself isn't worth doing, unless they 'get something for it'.

Also, using your body to earn a living is generally frowned upon by nice girls, but using it to 'earn' an emotional commitment isn't? Seems a little odd to me...


* if the sex was reasonably two-way - kissycat1000's comments about one-sided sex do make sense.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_mrx_/]

"Or perhaps it's that women are less likely to enjoy sex?"

Women enjoy sex more than men ...

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I would suggest that women can potentially enjoy sex more than men, but that potential is not always adequately explored by each encounter they have.

[ergotia.livejournal.com]

I agree that there are problems with the concept, but the basics are -

1 it is often more problematic for a woman to enjoy casual sex than it is for a man, hence sex is not always a "trade" for a woman

2 if there is supposedly some degree of emotional involvement which is seen as betrayed subsequent to sex a woman may feel used

I have known men describe feeling like this as well.

[bluecassandra.livejournal.com]

You get "used" for sex if you expected something else from the encounter, whether this was stated or a cultural or internal psychological ssumption, and this expectation isn't met.

Alot of the statemnets you've heard are based in a number of cultural asummptions that I don't like; for example, that men are more interested in sex than women, that men can have sex without beoming emotionally involved but women can't, that sex is more valuable for a woman, that women shouldn't have casual or emotionally uninvolved sex, that women don't enjoy sex as much as men, that women's only power over men is sex. The latter one in particualr tends to me annoyed, because it leads to those sex-for-housework negotiations and also to men who actually buy into thsi shit and start telling you how theres a secret matriarchy running the world disempowering poor ickle men.
Anyway, if you work on the basis of any or all of those ideas, the sentences you describe make perfect sense. They just don't if you've actually thought anything out at all. Or realised that you like sex.
Personally, I imagine I could feel used for sex, given that I expect men who have sex with me to have some sort of respect for me afterwards, and there were very obviuosly some who didn't. But I tend to regard that just as a mistake, rather than as being used. I can always rectify it by violence, anyway.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

Anyway, if you work on the basis of any or all of those ideas, the sentences you describe make perfect sense. They just don't if you've actually thought anything out at all. Or realised that you like sex.

Yeah, it's that last sentence that has me stumped. Once you've decided that actually, you just like the activity for its own sake, then building big complex emotional structures around it seems like something to be done only if you've got a good reason (i.e. you're in love with someone and you're building nice emotional structures), rather than a compulsory feature.

[missyasmina.livejournal.com]

As far as I can tell, having sex with someone is a trade. They get some, you get some. Everyone's a winner.

Amen to that. But, whenever you meet someone and have sex with them, how often do you actually say those words outloud first? "I want some friendly sex, nothing else"? You usually dont, cause, (supposing you are single) you never know when things can lead to something more.
This means, someone can easaly get the feeling of beeing used afterwards, -even though no promises were made, and they liked the sex they had.

That said, I think this is more common among the younger girls/boys that isnt really that experienced (both in life and in sexuality) yet. Those are the ones that could easaly confuse the attention they get whenever someone has a physical attraction towards them, -with the attention someone in love would give them.
Its easy to misinterpret it.

The "he has to earn it" comment: I dont understand it. Its a very old fashion way of looking at it. The times I have been in love, and I want something more than just sex, I would probably also wait a little longer before going to bed with him, but thats because I want to know the person better,feel safe, and be abselotly sure we both want the same thing.
In stead of having the sex, get dumped, and get even more hurt.
I say that because being intimite with someone that you are in love with, is a quite other thing than being intimite with someone you "just" like. It is for me anyway.

Other people might prefere having the sex sooner, in case there were some really mis-match when it comes to having sex with eachother, and then being able to back out before getting really involved and inlove with the person.
Or just because they just couldnt wait. (Been there done that)

Different strokes for different folkes. ;)

So all in all.
I belive in being honest about what you want. If you are, -and you get honesty yourself, he/she/you/whatever can`t come running afterwards and say: "He only used me for sex".

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I belive in being honest about what you want. If you are, -and you get honesty yourself, he/she/you/whatever can`t come running afterwards and say: "He only used me for sex".

Yep, honesty is definitely the best plan. Although I don't think you can guarantee that you won't get people complaining afterwards that they didn't get what they expected - you just have a much safer feeling that you did all you could to make the situation clear, and if they still misunderstood then at least you shouldn't have to feel too guilty about it.

[snoof.livejournal.com]

We're all insane. I can't believe you haven't worked that out yet!

xxx

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

It amuses me to keep searching for deeper meaning in it all ;)

*'searches' you for deeper 'meaning'*

[zellah.livejournal.com]

I'm just going to nod and point and smile and say... 'mmmm... sex'.

Yes please.

[arachne.livejournal.com]

I'm on my way.

[kynetik.livejournal.com]

Men want sex. Women want love. This is a major source of argument - but there /are/ reasons for it!

If you're looking at it from another perspective, men want to breed, and spread their seed as far as possible. Women want to find a man to hold onto who can help raise the children and someone who can be committed.
Like you say - I've never ever heard a man say 'She just uses me when she wants and then forgets about me - she just uses me as a sex object!'

also - the brain is laid out differently. The parts of the brain women use for 'sex' are closely used with the parts related to 'love'. Hence a woman finds it harder to have sex without emotion. Men, however, use almost polar opposites of their brains for sex, so sex with emotions is easier.

I hope this all makes sense - it's all based on averages anyway...

People usually end up getting hurt or used when they feel there is some emotional involvment in the relationship which the other person doesn't feel is present. This usually comes from a lack of communication.
Women think too much anyway - using 90% of their brain in use for emotions - wtf? Psyco's ;)

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I'm not convinced that the pop-psych reasons are enough to justify it. We've had fairly effective birth control for quite a while now, and relatively stable family units for much longer... are we really still thinking like cavemen? And cavewomen?

Do you have a link for the stuff about brain layout? I didn't think specific brain functions had been that well mapped to date, but it's not a research field I keep very current in...

I agree on the lack of communication thing, which is why I tend towards the brutally honest about this stuff. I'd rather whatever happens, happened for the right reasons.

[swiftangel.livejournal.com]

First, I find it highly entertaining (probably because I'm extremely tired at the moment) that when I started reading the comments to this post, there had been 69 comments posted.

Now to the actual debate.

I don't in any way claim to represent the typical woman, but I can easily say that I don't always want or expect any sort of emotional connection out of sex.

I will say that it's rare for me to even be interested in sex with a stranger unless there happens to be something specific to trigger and attraction - for instance with one particular person I'd had opportunity to observe huim on a number of occasions, even though I had never interacted with him. The first encounter actually ended up leading to him being the kind of friend I describe below.

If I have a casual sex encounter, I actually prefer it to be with someone I know. It's very liberating to have a friend with whom you can just have fantastic sex without all of the emotional baggage. I'm not just talking about a friend with whom all encounters are sexual, either. I'm talking about someone you know and get on with as a person, but who is perfectly happy with the idea that dinner and a movie followed by sex is just what it says on the tin.

Have I ever felt 'used' for sex? Not in any consensual encounter I can recall.

Have I ever 'used' someone for sex? Yes. It was a revenge ploy and it worked very well, but I'm not necessarily proud of it and am not likely to find myself in a situation to lead to the need for such revenge in the future.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I find it highly entertaining (probably because I'm extremely tired at the moment) that when I started reading the comments to this post, there had been 69 comments posted.

*grin*

If I have a casual sex encounter, I actually prefer it to be with someone I know.

Yeah, I was just discussing this with someone on IRC literally a few seconds ago... a good friend that you can sleep with is definitely one of the best deals going. You can have so much more fun with the the kind of mutual trust and respect you have there. I know I said earlier in the thread that I don't require those things, but they certainly can lead to things getting much interesting :)

[hamsterine.livejournal.com]

I have actually heard a few men complain of being "used for sex", and a couple of times it was aimed at me. Once, I didn't think it was justified because I had put a lot of time into social stuff with this person. I did love him but he wasn't feeling it, so we had to work that out. Another time it was because of lack of communication- I'd been seeing this guy regularly for sex, and very little else had happened between us. One day he refered to me as his girlfriend and I said, woah, no I'm not- I thought this was just sex. He was upset and said I'd just been using him. I said: "sorry, I thought it was mutually about casual sex. If you don't want that, lets call it a day." I didn't see him after that. I think some people would have avoided being honest about their lack of social/romantic interest at that point, rather than have things end. Thats the point at which I think there would be a genuine case of "using" him, rather than just poor communication.

[phantmgreeneyes.livejournal.com]

74! oh look! you're loved.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I guess I touched a nerve or something... looks like a lot of people have given the subject some serious thought.

[reddragdiva]

Bah. *waves* Stick with men. Then you know where you stand.

1st gay guy: "Hi! Let's have sex!"
2nd gay guy: "Cool! Your place or mine?"
1st gay guy: "Well, if you're going to be all finicky about it ..."

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

Like I said, I'm aware this problem is a non-starter on the male gay scene :)

[fayroberts.livejournal.com]

I haven't read all the others - it's time for bed! But my comment, for what it's worth:

Some people are crap in bed. Specifically, in the kind of instance about which you're talking, because some people are selfish, selfish gits.

And no, I'm not actually talking men, here - for the most part, most of the sexual experiences I've had with most of the blokes with whom I've had sexual experiences have been reciprocal. They're right alongside the sex-as-exchange thing. Well, okay, there have been blips, of course, but statistically...

No, oddly enough, most of my awe-shatteringly, jaw-droppingly I-can't-believe-you-just-did-that sexual experiences of mind-bending selfishness have involved women. Women who just didn't fancy sharing the O, thank you very much - no, I'm fine, I'll just sleep now.

{timid voice of incredulity} Erm, hello? Am I brutally hideous and have poor personal hygiene? Er? Hello? Oh, sorry, you're asleep, I'll just... er...

Go masturbate in your bathroom.

That's not to say some of the blokes haven't been insensitive or selfish or frankly mad or whatever, but it's overwhelmingly the women who've 'used' me. Taken their orgasm and run. Actually, sauntered away, smugly, satisfied with their prize.

Gits.

Like you, I find it hard to understand how anyone could enjoy not giving pleasure to someone else. But it happens. Oh my, it does. And no doubt I'll witness it again. I'm hoping not, but you never know your luck I know my luck all too well, ta. At least nowadays I just say pfff and walk away early on instead of hanging around, satisfied with scraps for ages.

frussercrusserrusser

Anyway, that's my perspective.

{nods}

No doubt you have inspired many a rant. 104 comments?!

My 5p worth

[puddingcat.livejournal.com]

I feel "used for sex" if (a) I don't get what I wanted out of it, be that a relationship, an orgasm or a quickie, and (b) the man in question made me think beforehand that I *would* get what I wanted. If no promises or implications were made, I might grump around for a little while, but can't really blame *just* the bloke.

Pretty much what the others have said, really.

[annacdotes.livejournal.com]

Hi,
You've had plenty of replies to what is obviously a popular topic, but just to say, you make a good point. Amongst my friends, I have some intelligent and beautiful women who claim they've been "used for sex". I tried to point out to them that they said the sex at the time was amazing (interestingly I think there might be a link between the better the sex for the woman, the more she feels 'used' if it doesn't go anywhere. An archaic notion of feeling slutty I guess.) but it doesn't seem to make any difference. I think women can be their own worst enemies when it comes to this issue - victim culture does no-one any favours. If you hoped at the time you had sex the relationship was going to go somewhere and it didn't, why blame the man, why blame yourself, why blame anyone?! It's just sex at the end of the day.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

Yeah, other than in the case where the guy was deliberately intending all along to just get a shag and then run, but talked like wedding bells were imminent, I really don't see what the problem is. I think most of the trouble must be being caused by assumptions on both sides rather than actual stated intentions.

How did you find your way here, by the way? I don't see any LJ friends in common...

The reason why men don't talk about it

[(Anonymous)]

Men cannot talk about bad sex. With whom should they talk about it mith their freinds that point with a finger on them.

one shouldn't probably talk about sex with a particular person because one should be a gentleman.

Men are told their whole live that they should keep their feeling for themselfes so why show one's broken heart

Re: The reason why men don't talk about it

[fellcat.livejournal.com]

For every girl who takes a step toward her liberation, tere is a boy who finds the way to freedom a little easier (Nancy R. Smith, date unknown (https://www.reachandteach.com/store/index.php?action=item&id=49&prevaction=item&previd=50&prevstart=)); the gender stereotypes that cause women to feel used also cause men to be silent about their feelings. Ending gender stereotyping would be a good thing for both sexes.