No, you can't use me for sex.

[denny]

...not because I wouldn't let you, but just because I don't see how it would be possible. I like sex.


A few times lately in various conversations I've heard girls use phrases like "He was just using me for sex" or "I don't want to be used for sex", and also things like "He needs to earn it first".

I don't understand this concept.

As far as I can tell, having sex with someone is a trade. They get some, you get some. Everyone's a winner.

If a girl wants to have sex with me, then I don't see how I can 'use' her for sex, and I don't see why I should have to 'earn' it either. If she wants sex with me, and she gets it, surely that's a fairly successful outcome for her? And if she doesn't want sex with me, then I wouldn't want to do it anyway... half-hearted shags are almost invariably crap.

Anyway, can anybody explain the fault in my reasoning? Maybe girls have a sekrit stockpile of sex that guys steal from them if they don't keep it carefully guarded at all times...

Do girls actually feel like they're doing blokes a huge one-way favour when they sleep with them? If so, why do they bother doing it?

I say 'girl' because I've yet to hear a guy complain about being used for sex. Odd that. Is this because men are sluts, or is it because society has given women some weird artificially inflated opinion of the value of their participation in the sex act, compared to the participation of the guy?

Or perhaps it's that women are less likely to enjoy sex? The problem I have is reconciling enjoying sex and 'feeling used' by it. I suppose if you hated sex but did it anyway (for what?) then it would make more sense.

I know gay guys don't seem to be worried about being used for sex. Is the concept in use in the gay scene for women, or is it strictly a heterosexual thing? Maybe it's part of the whole 'women as property' mess that our society is still trying to shake off?

I really don't understand this attitude to sex - and when it's aimed at me, I find it quite insulting. It takes two to tango... if you don't want me as much as I want you, then why are we even talking about it?

Comments

[arachne.livejournal.com]

Way I see it, people (and I've heard men complan of being used for sex, but less frequently than women, it's true) tend to complain of being "used for sex" when they wanted/expected more than sex from their liason with said person and didn't get it. Whether that actually got round to letting the other person *know* they wanted/expected more usually doesn't factor. They wanted something deeper than penetration, didn't get, so feel "used", even though they allowed the "use".

Basically, people are very very silly things indeed.

Also, there's the age-old thing, programming that's being broken but you still come across (fnarr) occasional deep-seated subconscious hang-ups - women are the passive sex partner. Women *give* sex to men. It's a wife's greatest gift to her husband, yadda yadda, get me to Victorian times already. That may have something to do with it, but you'd think we'd all be well over that by now. Unfortunately, we don't all completely seem to be.

[lusercop.livejournal.com]

Just as a small data point, there was one-time where I felt this was the case - only one, mind you, and I'm a hetero bloke. I let myself be talked into it, and I'm not sure quite how it happened, but it did. To be fair this was with someone that I had been sleeping with for over a year at one stage, but she'd been out with someone else in the meantime.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I agree.

I think when women say that they're definitely referring to anything but sex when they say 'I feel used for sex'.

Women, eh? ;)

[arachne.livejournal.com]

Don't get me started ;)

[booklectica]

'Used' to me implies that someone has pretended to be interested in someone else's mind, emotions, opinions etc, in order to get sex. (CF. Neil Strauss's The Game.) Then after the sex it becomes clear that it was indeed pretence. Whether the person in question enjoys the resulting sex or not, that kind of thing can leave you feeling rather upset.

It usually seems to be men pretending interest in women. They presumably do this because they don't believe women will want sex for its own sake, so they have to be tricked into it.

It's also worth noting that (gross generalisation coming up) it's easier for men to have good sex than women, especially when it's casual sex. Also that women have more to lose from careless casual sex than men do (pregnancy, 'reputaton' - see above comment re Victorian ideas).

If women could be guaranteed enjoyable, safe sex with someone who respects them as a fellow human being, they'd probably have casual sex more often. This does not currently seem to be the case.

(This is all theory. I've not really done the one-night-stand thing, and the one time I did I ended up marrying them.)

[snowyfeline.livejournal.com]

hehehe. I guess when people use each other it's ok :P
(don't mind me. you know how i am when I've just woken up...)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

*lights fuse*

*runs 50 paces and dives behind cover*

[kissycat1000.livejournal.com]

I think feeling 'used' for sex comes about when the person doing the complaining feels that the experience was purely physical when they wanted something more than that - a relationship, a merging of souls, a feeling that they have now become more special to you than they previously were. However if you go into it not expecting any of these things and not knowing that your partner does, then you get problems.

Also, really bad sex where you take you pleasure but don't go out of your way to make sure that your partner is satisfied - that's 'using' someone for sex, I'm sure.

I don't recall ever feeling that I've been used for sex before by a particular person, though I have had some instances of an established partner keeping an emotional distance from me during sex, or just taking their pleasure with no care for mine. That could qualify, I suppose.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Ah, swayed again - thanks for pointing those bits out (being a direct sort of guy who wouldn't pretend anything).. :)

[cryx]

I think this attitude comes in when the lady in question is looking for a relationship, and believes that the act of sex is confirmation that this is what is being entered into.

I also know guys who have felt used, and girls by other girls.

I think that there are alot of different attitudes to sex in the culture in general, and that the attitudes of my friends are often quite different to the 'norm'.

[booklectica]

Yes, most of the men I know will just ask if you want sex. :) But I don't think you, and they, are necessarily typical. Though I hope Neil Strauss isn't either. See here for an idea of what I mean. http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1578960,00.html

[http://users.livejournal.com/_mrx_/]

"Or perhaps it's that women are less likely to enjoy sex?"

Women enjoy sex more than men ...

[arachne.livejournal.com]

Yup, yup and yup, also.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Hm, I get the feeling that it's just a difference in expectations. When a man chooses to sleep with a woman, it's usually (generalisation ahoy!) "woo yay! fun!".. and when a woman chooses to sleep with a man, it can often be (generalisations ahoy again!) "ooh this is nice I hope he calls me tomorrow and arranges a date.. I wonder what shoes I should wear to our wedding.."

(Okay, that last bit was a bit OTT, but I know some girls have actually thought like that!)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_mrx_/]

*pssst*

women have the same amount of casual sex as men ;-)

[booklectica]

Are you sure? I'd have thought the amount of male-male sex would skew the stats.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I do like that top :-P

It looks like a common theme in the comments so far is this thing of one person expecting a relationship and the other just thinking there were in for a shag. It still seems to me that this implies the 'injured' party was only reluctantly giving the sex in return for something which they felt was valuable - the emotional commitment. This still seems to suggest that to them the sex itself isn't worth doing, unless they 'get something for it'.

Also, using your body to earn a living is generally frowned upon by nice girls, but using it to 'earn' an emotional commitment isn't? Seems a little odd to me...


* if the sex was reasonably two-way - kissycat1000's comments about one-sided sex do make sense.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I would suggest that women can potentially enjoy sex more than men, but that potential is not always adequately explored by each encounter they have.

[booklectica]

I know what you mean, but I don't think it's just that. And in any case, I don't think one attitude is necessarily more admirable than the other. There's no reason why casual sex should have to be all on men's terms. :)

[arachne.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, diplomatic!

[bluecassandra.livejournal.com]

Evidence, if such a thing is possible given that alot of people must be lying in sex surveys?

[http://users.livejournal.com/_mrx_/]

women-women sex...?

there's always a balace there :-)


Mr X - who thought we were talking about hetro sex anyway

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I think feeling 'used' for sex comes about when the person doing the complaining feels that the experience was purely physical when they wanted something more than that - a relationship, a merging of souls, a feeling that they have now become more special to you than they previously were.

From my point of view, you don't get 'a merging of souls' from sex. You can reinforce emotional closeness with sex, you can glory in it (oh how you can glory in it!), but you don't generate it. Maybe I'm odd in this respect?

I sleep with people either because I think it will be good fun, or because I love them and it will be both good fun and emotionally amazing. I never expect to sleep with someone I don't already love and have it be emotionally amazing in that same way...

Also, really bad sex where you take you pleasure but don't go out of your way to make sure that your partner is satisfied - that's 'using' someone for sex, I'm sure.

This is a good point... I said having sex with somebody is a trade... of course, it should really be a fair trade to be worth doing.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_mrx_/]

simple

for a man to have casual sex with a woman, then the woman must have casual sex with the man in question.

so, just as many women have casual sex as do men.

[cryx]

to me it doesn't necessarily imply about the enjoyment of the lady in question.

For example, if a lady engadged you in sex so her mate could nick your car whilst you were busy. The sex may have been fine, but when the truth of the situation is revealled you will in retrospect feel worse about it. You may resent being decieved, even if you both enjoyed the act very much....