Beware Of The Ben

[denny]

duranorak got propositioned by a guy while we were out together this weekend. She seems mildly offended that when she turned him down, he went and found someone else to grope in a corner instead, rather than carrying on the conversation he'd struck up with her prior to the crucial "Fancy coming back to my place later?"

I'm intrigued by all this... personally, I'm always quite complimented when people hit on me... and unless we were at a fetish club, I'd expect it to be done in much the way this was (i.e. express some vague interest in the person you're chatting up, then pop the question at them) rather than just starting out with "So, fancy a shag?", which seems to be what duranorak would have preferred - it would be more honest, apparently. If not particularly socially acceptable, I'm thinking.

So, where was I going with this? Oh yes... question: if being approached as a potential shag in a pub or club, would you prefer the 'Hi, how are you/do you come here often/what's your sign/etc?' approach, or the 'Hi, wanna fuck?' approach?

Comments

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

It depends on whether they were being creepy and sycophantic or sweet and slightly arrogant as to whether I'd find "So, fancy a shag" a compliment or really rude.

Generally though I'd want to talk to them for a bit first, in case they turn out to be boring.

[kissycat1000.livejournal.com]

'Hi, wanna fuck?'


*smiles at you sweetly*

[nickys.livejournal.com]

Well, if all they wanted was a shag then I'd rather they were honest about that from the start rather than pretending to be interested in talking to me and then vanishing into thin air when I turned out not to be prepared to sleep with them.
I do think it's bad manners to pretend to like someone for the sole purpose of getting them into bed.
At the very least, if a guy has started a conversation it would be polite for him to finish it before going off to ask somebody else for a shag, rather than acting as if a woman ceases to exist if she doesn't want to have sex with him.

[duranorak.livejournal.com]

I couldn't have said it better myself. Yes.

E.
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[dennyd.livejournal.com]

At the very least, if a guy has started a conversation it would be polite for him to finish it before going off to ask somebody else for a shag, rather than acting as if a woman ceases to exist if she doesn't want to have sex with him.

Yes, that's a good point. I'm not sure how swiftly he mooched off once he figured out he was out of luck, but I'd agree with you on this one... chatting for a bit longer would be polite. And, in this case, might have left him a good chance for the future too, judging by what duranorak has said elsewhere  :)

[duranorak.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how swiftly he mooched off once he figured out he was out of luck

Him : Blah blah blah, want to have sex?
Me : Er, I can't, stuff, things, wish I could, [things which required explanation] -
DJ : 'Gorgeous', Turbulent Soundscape.
Me : I'm sorry, I really have to dance to this. I'll explain when I get back.
Him : OK, I could already see you loved this song. I'll be here when it's finished.

So I ran off, then when it was over I squeaked at you and then ran back, and he wasn't there, and I went and found him and said "Hey" and he turned away from me and wandered off. I tried talking to him twice after that (when he was alone) and he did the same. Sorry, but I call that downright nasty.
I realise it may have been partly my fault for running off to dance but it wasn't as if I just bolted, and he did say he'd be there when I got back.

E.
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[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I went and found him and said "Hey" and he turned away from me and wandered off. I tried talking to him twice after that (when he was alone) and he did the same. Sorry, but I call that downright nasty.

Well yes, I'd agree. You didn't mention it was that blatant when you told me he didn't seem interested in talking any more.

[duranorak.livejournal.com]

Eh. I was a lot more upset than I wanted to be and I was trying very hard to squash it flat. Telling yourself "it's really not that bad, honest" tends to project onto other people as well. Which is a good thing until you're cross-examined later. :)

Oh dear. That made no sense, I need to sleep.

E.
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[werenerd.livejournal.com]

"Hi, how are you/do you come here often/what's your sign/etc."

The other way doesn't work at all for me.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nicolai_/]

I'm with "conversation", not "wannafuck?". But I wouldn't jump into bed with someone I hadn't at least had some conversation with, just to establish I didn't completely loathe them. You must be smarter (and more talkative) than this stick --->     | to fuck me :)

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

You must be smarter (and more talkative) than this stick --->   |   to fuck me :)

*grin*

[the-lady-lily.livejournal.com]

I don't like people looking at me as the total sum of my breasts.

Oh, I know it could be argued that I encourage people to do so at events like the Calling, but in the main most people there have the ability to think above that.

I don't casual shag uninteresting people, so I suspect getting me interested would be far more effective than the 'wanna fuck' option.

All utterly hypothetical, of course...

[duranorak.livejournal.com]

The Ben and Tom thing has sort of been brewing for ages. It wasn't all this guy's fault, damn the little bastard punch his lights out make sure he has no further balls to play with grr grr argh honest. :)

I'd feel complimented if someone wanted to talk to me.
I'd feel complimented if someone wanted to sleep with me.
I'd feel used if someone pretended one to get to the other. (Unlikely as the reverse of what happened this time might seem, I have actually had it happen to me. Though not via a Ben or a Tom.)

And all of what nickys said, to the letter.

E.
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[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

I'm in favour of the starting a conversation first plan, as unless someone is startlingly attractive, I'm going to automatically turn down a wannafuck. If they seem interesting when I'm talking to them I'm much more likely to want to sleep with them. I'm not quite sure why it's considered deceitful, unless you deliberately try and give the impression that you're not on the pull at all.

(of course, all this is notwithstanding the fact that I'm now deeply unlikely to sleep with anyone I'm not in a relationship with anyway)

[duranorak.livejournal.com]

I did accuse Ben.5 of being dishonest that night (no, not to his face, of course not) because I asked him "Why did you come and find me to talk to me?" and he said "I found you intriguing, I want to know all about you" when all he actually wanted was to sleep with me. I don't know, if I say "I want to know all about you" I mean it, and I say it because I want someone to know I think they're special and fascinating; if I wanted to [well, not have sex with them, but y'know] I'd give some variant of "I've noticed you around, I find you very attractive, would you go to bed with me?"
I realise I'm in a minority by being someone who'd *rather* know all about someone they find attractive than sleep with them, but I still don't like someone saying they want to know "all about me" when all they actually want to know is "yes or no"?

~shrug~

E.
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[dennyd.livejournal.com]

"...I want to know all about you..."

Tis an odd turn of phrase to use if all you're actually doing is the polite preamble to 'wanna shag?', yes. If he's not careful, the lad could end up with stalkers boiling his pets (or his balls) for him...

[duranorak.livejournal.com]

He already had at least one stalker. ~grin~ Now he's got at least one with a vengeance. Mwahahahaha. Etc.

I suspect he may have been drunk, or perhaps slightly worse. But you know I never notice that.

E.
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[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I suspect he may have been drunk, or perhaps slightly worse

I was about to answer "He can't have been, not and still do that contact juggling stuff", and then I remembered the state I was in when I was juggling at Whitby  :-\

Yes, he did look a bit cheerful... could be. Or he could just be a bit lacking in actual charm to back up the apparent charm he obviously has.

[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

That does make a certain sense, although to me "I want to know all about you" sounds so much like a line that I'd assume it was from the get go.

Also, you mentioned in a comment elsethread that shortly after he mentioned being interested in sex with you, you ran off to dance. That's something that I do when someone is being more interested than I'd like, so it's quite possible that he assumed you were doing the same, and that put his defences up?

[duranorak.livejournal.com]

Well...well...~gestures in an entirely fucking exasperated way~ I expect people to take me at my word ("I'll be back after this song") and I expect to be able to take people at theirs ("I'll be here after this song") and normally that's borne out which is why it throws me so much when I meet a Ben person who isn't honest!

~sigh~

I didn't believe interesting people had 'lines' - I thought that was just for people without the wit to come up with anything original. Because people don't chat me up, I guess. I just don't have the words for how depressed this thread has made me.

E.
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[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

You m'dear, are far too trusting. Expecting people who know you to take you at your word/stick to theirs, is one thing, but strangers? Why should they? They have no idea what you're like.

I didn't believe interesting people had 'lines'

Heck, I have lines. Don't use them very often, but I have them.

Um. And drawing the obvious conclusion from that will get you pouted at...

I've been telling myself I was about to go to bed for the past three comments. I really am going to now...

[duranorak.livejournal.com]

I don't know, I don't automatically distrust strangers so I don't assume they'll automatically distrust me. ~sigh~ Whatever.

Sleep well.

E.
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[reddragdiva]

I use lines all the time. If you get post-post-ironic enough, it means the same thing, but better. And stuff.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I didn't believe interesting people had 'lines' - I thought that was just for people without the wit to come up with anything original.

Well, he's kinda cute, but that doesn't mean he's actually going to be interesting to hold a conversation with. As proved, or at least strongly suggested, by his behaviour on Friday.

Because people don't chat me up, I guess.

Um. What was he doing then?  :)

You may wish to try and develop a slightly thicker skin about being approached by people who lack key social skills in this area... it's likely to happen more often as you grow more confident and look more approachable.

*huggles* Miss you *kiss*

[duranorak.livejournal.com]

I meant to add "(which he was)" after "interesting people". He was, really. Just, kind of crap with it. Or, y'know, Ben.

Heck, I need a thicker skin to deal with everything.
Whatever. Lots and lots of whatever. And lots.

But I miss you, too.

E.
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[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

Oh, and another point has just occured to me. They might, whilst being very much on the pull, also be picky - that is wanting to check that you're interesting to talk to before they decided that the original physical attraction bears out. If that's the case, and they start off with "Hi. Wanna shag?" then they might end up having to get out of a rather embarassing situation...

[reddragdiva]

"Get your coat, you've pulled."

I don't actually do chatup lines. At all. It's all done by some magical process of social osmosis.

As I get older and more past it wiser, I have taken to actually telling people I fancy them incredibly. This works surprisingly well. Well, it would have surprised a much younger me. Oh, the people I wish I'd told, way back when ...

[velvetfox.livejournal.com]

Meh, but sometimes telling people you fancy them just Cant Be Done. *yikes*

And sometimes if you fancy someone it's easy to just say 'wanna fuck' and get it out of your system before it starts to get any deeper into you.

[reddragdiva]

Sure it can. You just need to say "Hey, nice [body part]!" in the right tone of voice.

This can take years of practice.

[velvetfox.livejournal.com]

yes but *whispers* "then they'd know"

[reddragdiva]

You're going to be kicking yourself so hard in five years when you finally start trying this method and it works spectacularly.

[velvetfox.livejournal.com]

no no don't get me wrong, this one works for me, just not with certain special people.

[reddragdiva]

Yeah, that one can be a bugger.

[reddragdiva]

Oh, my record with pickups is one hundred and twenty seconds from meeting to shag. My first visit to Slimelight:

Presentable young man: "Hello!"
Me: "Hi. Nice tits!" (He was wearing a bra with water-filled condoms.)
PYM: "Why, thank you!"
*kiss*
PYM: "Would you like to find a cubicle upstairs?"
Me: "Sounds good to me!"

That was being picked up rather than picking up, but certainly counts as my most successful use of verbal appreciation of a bodily part.

[velvetfox.livejournal.com]

Something similar at my first visit to slimelight. rahr! must first-go-there more often :)

[lizw.livejournal.com]

Generally, I prefer conversation first. The only exception I can think of is that I don't mind if someone comes over in a fetish club and opens the interaction by asking if I'll do a scene with them (whereas I would mind if they immediately asked for a shag).

[hamsterine.livejournal.com]

It depends where we are. If I'm in a sex/fetish sort of venue, then "fancy a shag?" is appropriate. If not, I'd find it a bit creepy, but I could deal with it.

I like it when people express some genuine interest in me as a person, even if they are looking for sex. The two are not mutually exclusive- personally I like to know who I am shagging! If they are only going to fake it, there seems little point, because I can normally tell. In those cases I guess I'd prefer "fancy a shag?" rather than a load of bullshit.

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

I don't think I've ever walked up to s stranger and said 'fancy a shag?' - it's a line to use at the end of the night after you've been talking to someone attractive for a while and feeling a bit drunk and cheeky.
'Hello, you're cute, what's your name?' is generally pretty successful, though.

[aiwendel.livejournal.com]

whether the answer to the 2nd question was "yes" or "no" would depend on if they were interesting etc and i got on with them.
so "do you want a fuck" would get a big "fuck off!" or "go fuck yourself" in reply....

whereas after talking a while, then i'd probably cope with the question, and respond according to how well i got on with them etc etc.

If they were just after sex it'd be fairly obvious from their manner anyway, and and them going off to chat up someone else after would generally be more amuzing (and flattering that they'd talked to me first) than anything negative...

:)

[booklectica]

I'd probably run away when faced with either approach from a man. From a woman, either would probably work (but it's rare to find women who chat women up that way, apart from trishpiglet who has the knack).

I'm not entirely sure what that implies - I think it means that I'm very unlikely to sleep with a man I don't know very well, whereas my attraction to women tends to be more directly physical. Plus, like virtually every other bi woman I know, I need more same-sex sex. :)