Weekended

[denny]

Hrm... went out Friday to Synthetic Culture. Span my newly constructed glow-poi, which got some looks, so that was fun. Then the place filled up, and as I was having a particularly smoke-sensitive night, I had a bit of a crap time from there on. At one point I was ranting on this subject in the outside area and a guy walking past stopped to tell me that the last thing I'd said deserved quoting, so here it us:

"Goths and metallers are the last great hope of the cancer-stick industry"

Headed for home at 3am because lunernia was tired and I was fed up with not being able to breathe well enough to dance - unfortunately due to a complete lack of knowledge of night buses, we ended up not getting home until about 6:30am anyway - it would have been just as quick, and considerably cheaper and warmer, to hide in a corner of the club until it closed and then get the first tube home. Oh well.

Probably won't go back to SC until the summer, when I can avoid the smoke by going outside without freezing to death. On the other hand, if I have to spend all my time outside where I can't hear the music, then there's probably not much point in going at all.

Saturday was spent sleeping, eating pizza, and watching DVDs (Shaun of the Dead, and Wargames). Then there was more sleeping, and it was Sunday. My planned day-trip back to MK to tidy up odds and ends in my old house was called off as my brother-in-law has apparently flooded the house. Good job he's buying it really, or I'd be quite annoyed. To replace said day-trip, we watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer (the original movie).

While I remember... my drumkit is for sale, if anyone is looking for one, or knows anyone who is. It's an 8 piece Pearl kit, dual bass drum (some parts BLX, some parts Export - all gloss black). Oh I lie, the brass snare isn't Pearl, that's Premier. I also have some very nice Zildjian cymbals which I bought new and hence spent vast amounts of money on, which are still in very good condition. The whole lot is going for £1000, or you can buy just the drums for £500 or just the cymbals for £800 - full details on request, serious enquiries only please.

Comments

[dryad-wombat.livejournal.com]

I completely and wholeheartedly share your feelings re smoke - and isn't it ghastly how that does preclude us from good clubs? I can't WAIT until laws change it.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

It doesn't look like the law in England will be changing in a way that will improve my nightclubbing experience... they seem fairly focused on just addressing the 'pub restuarant' side of things. At least that's something, and definitely of practical value to me.

It does look as though some of the fetish clubs in London might consider only allowing smoking in only certain areas - if that happens, then I can start only spending my money in places which cater to my preferences, and hopefully others will do the same, leading to more venues going down the same route. Well, I can hope.

I'd really prefer to see the problem fixed in a non-legislative fashion if at all possible - although I suspect it may not be possible, due to the culturally ingrained nature of the problem, and a legislative 'push' will be needed to get the ball rolling. The problem with that is that it's a law restricting personal freedoms, and I'm always wary of that precedent, no matter how good the justification.

[deborah_c]

Your thoughts seem to be very similar to my own on this. I'm allergic to cigarette smoke (or at least, as far as I can tell, to the smoke from pre-made cigarettes), and too much of it will stop me breathing altogether. Yes, there are two smoke-free pubs in Cambridge, but they're not in general where my friends go, not least because a lot of them are smokers. As for clubs... well, it's not uncommon for me to spend some part of the Calling standing in the doorway or outside in order to feel at least less unwell, or to have to leave early while I'm still capable of doing so.

Mandating non-smoking areas just doesn't work. Another social group I go to meets in a Cambridge pub, where the landlords are smokers but are sympathetic to those who aren't. So, the end of the pub where my group of friends is designated "non-smoking", and smokers have to go elsewhere to light up. Sadly, most go 2 or 3 feet beyond the dividing line, and so it's rather ineffectual. Generally, although people are there for the whole evening, I can't stand more than an hour, sometimes less. Restaurants are often just as bad; Browns once seated a large group of us "non-smoking" (having been warned that this was a medical condition, not just preference) for a client's Christmas party, with someone at the next table who didn't just smoke between courses, but between mouthfuls. I spent most of the party standing on the pavement outside as a result, coming in just when courses arrived, and not even that after a while. (As for the xmas party of my partner's then employers, when we were seated next to a table full of visiting Koreans... ugh)

And yet, when Elise polled to see who thought a ban on smoking would be a good idea, I couldn't answer. From a purely selfish point of view, I would love it if no one smoked in public places; my own life would be so much more pleasant. But on the other hand, it makes me really uneasy to make, essentially, the statement "my views are more important than your pleasure, so since we disagree you should be stopped by law". It may be because a lot of my life falls into the opposite side of similar arguments, and just be selfish, but I think it's more to do with having a slightly more libertarian viewpoint. I don't see any alternative that's going to be effective, though.

But the way the current proposal has been phrased isn't actually going to affect things like clubs, of course. Someone was on the news recently saying that it would put every nightclub in the country out of business, because they're forced to sell food by licensing, and so wouldn't be allowed to let people smoke, and no one would go. This doesn't quite square with my experience (at least, if the Kambar have kitchens somewhere, they're very well hidden!), so I'm expecting that if anything clubs will get worse -- if all the smokers have two hours-worth of non-smoking in the pub beforehand to catch up on, then I'm likely to be able to cope with even less time actually in there, but such is life. I'm not selfish enough to campaign for more, and at least I can be grateful that there will be more places where I can go for a quiet drink, even if my friends choose to be elsewhere.

[fellcat.livejournal.com]

it makes me really uneasy to make, essentially, the statement my views are more important than your pleasure, so since we disagree you should be stopped by law.

Substitute views are with health is and see how it sounds. Medical needs ≠ selfishness.

[deborah_c]

Ah, but the dedicated devil's advocate would argue that my health is only being harmed because I chose to go somewhere where there would be smoke...

robert_jones is almost certainly right that I worry too much about upsetting other people, though :-)

(Adding you, if that's OK)

[fellcat.livejournal.com]

I chose to go somewhere where there would be smoke…

And if the law is changed to ban smoking in pubs, then they choose to go somewhere where they cannot smoke.

I tend to favour the argument that because humans are social animals it is necessary to go out regularly to maintain good mental health, and that therefore going out is not a choice. In that case, it comes down to who is more inconvenienced; the smoker who has to go outside for ten minutes to smoke, or the asthmatic who has to go outside for the entire evening to escape the smoke?

(Adding you, if that's OK)

That's fine but I must warn you that I rant a lot.

[djlongfella.livejournal.com]

Hmm the smoking thing is difficult, I smoke, I hate it, I try to respect others rights, vut I smoke...almost as viscious circle as smoking itself...

It is of professional and personal interest to me, to know what you guys feel about smoke machines in clubs ?

And ( with respect ) if any of you notice the difference when a hazer is used instead of a smoke machine ?

Cheers

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

Smoke machines generally have far less bite than cigarettes. Also, you can generally move away from the smoke machine - whereas smokers will be distributed throughout a venue.

No idea what a hazer is :)

[fellcat.livejournal.com]

A thing that makes a haze in the air. How it's different from a smoke machine I don't know.

[djlongfella.livejournal.com]

Er Ok ..Smoke machines pass a presurised sugar or oil based fluid through a heating block at speed, essentially caramelising the liquid into a solid, the resulting presure of cooler fluid being pumped into the heating block spurts the contaminates out into the air.... ( An opaque dense fog )

Hazers, well there are a few varients on how this is done, water is " cracked " using high voltage and a whole loada science stuff, which basically forms a minute bubble , or depending on method a water droplet small enough and warm enough to float in the air.smaller than a smoke particle.

These machines produce a translucent haze in the air, undefinable in comparison to smoke particals.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I've sat next to a frontroom decorative style one of these things... it was a bit like being sat near an ioniser, but not as dramatic - just slightly fresher air, if you concentrated on it. I'm not sure how it would scale up to clubbing equipment though - does it not make the air somewhat soggy?

[djlongfella.livejournal.com]

Soggy...Must admit, I've only used them in large venues, and have only seen them work in large venues, I opften contemplated using one at Tzone, but was a little aprehensive that the old wall paper might start rolling off, and, as you know we liked the Tzone a little dark and gloomy, being translucent as opposed to opaque, hazers don't darken down the atmos anything like a smaoke machine, and the light beams , obviously don't drgrade in lumens half as quick when traveling through " Haze " as against " smoke "...Lazer beams REALLY sparkle when traveling through Haze, but you don't get the dramatic swirly smoke atmos, as per the Photos of you " Angel " and " Raver " by Frozenmist.

Hmm Might as you at some point to come test a small environ atmos, comparing the two, would be good to have an avid non smokers opinion on the difference between the two.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

Happy to be helpfully opinionated for you :)